In conversation with Franco Di Chiera
In conversation with Franco Di Chiera
Silvana Tuccio april 2017
ST Franco, last time we met I was on the big screen and you were in the cinema. While that might sound a little strange, let me explain that it was a round table during the Sguardi altrove film festival. I had tuned in via skype, since flights from Sicily to Milan were hard to get at that time. You arrived from Australia for the première of Big Mamma’s Boy, and so you were on stage with Patrizia Rapazzo, the director of the festival, and Carmelina di Guglielmo.
ST Franco, last time we met I was on the big screen and you were in the cinema. While that might sound a little strange, let me explain that it was a round table during the Sguardi altrove film festival. I had tuned in via skype, since flights from Sicily to Milan were hard to get at that time. You arrived from Australia for the première of Big Mamma’s Boy, and so you were on stage with Patrizia Rapazzo, the director of the festival, and Carmelina di Guglielmo.
Patricia Rapazzo had organised the roundtable to discuss the Australian films I had selected for the Australian focus. Three Australian short films with an Italian theme came from the Sguardi australiani Archive in Prato (The Spag by Giorgio Mangiamele, Spaventapasseri by Luigi Aquisto, Arrivederci Roma by Geoffrey Wright), and the other two were Big Mamma's Boy (2011) directed by you (produced by Frank Lotito and Matteo Bruno and distributed by Madman Entertainment), and Joys of the Women (1992) also directed by you. Before the connection dropped, I recall Patrizia describing the witty undertone that runs throughout Big Mamma’s Boy.
Now that we get to sit and talk in person, I have some questions about the screening of your film in Italy. Did you feel that the audience in Milan reacted differently to the comedy to audiences in Melbourne?
FDC Big Mamma’s Boy was subtitled into Italian which was great because usually films are dubbed for commercial release in Italy. The reaction of the audience at the Sguardi Altrove Film Festival in Milan was fantastic. They immediately embraced the characters as their own—the adoring Italian mamma, the nonno prone to sudden outbursts, the big mamma’s boy Rocco, his comic side-kick Anton, the voluptuous and well-meaning neighbour, Mrs. Cotoletta, and Rocco’s love interest, the ambitious and independent Katie who brings a clash of cultures to the story. The audience joined in the celebration of the culture that was represented in the film, which was more pure, less corrupted and more innocent than that of Italy today. They recognised the larger-than-life, lovable characters that inhabited the film, many of whom reminded them of their parents and grandparents.
I was accompanied at the screening by Carmelina De Guglielmo, who played mamma, one of the two female leads. Carmelina and I witnessed this reaction and were overwhelmed: for the film to be received so warmly in our parent’s homeland was very special. It was emotional for both of us, going to the heart of our experience of growing up as children of Italian immigrants.
Frank Lotito, who was one of the principal writers, was also a stand-up comic. He had come up with the idea, and he, producer Matteo Bruno and I really wanted to pay homage to the last vestiges of post-war Italian immigrant culture in Australia. Many of these immigrants are now in the final stages of life. We felt the best way to honour them was through pathos and humour. The Romantic-Comedy genre was the most logical vehicle. There’s no doubt we all had a passion for good, old-fashioned entertainment.
Stylistically, I wanted the film to have a retro feel. I’ve always loved Rock Hudson and Doris day movies with their handsome, bumbling lead man and sassy, singing lead lady. These films were some of the best Rom-Coms ever made in my opinion. Big Mamma’s Boy takes inspiration from that formula, except the singer in this case was a man rather than a woman. Frank has a beautiful singing voice and can really pump it out. It’s surprising that very few of the critics picked up on this cinematic reference, instead, interpreting it as outdated.
Despite what critics said, the film came from a position of love and pride for our cultural experience. The film speaks to who we are, of being first generation Australians. A large proportion of the audience in Milan were also children of immigrants; economic migrants that had relocated from Southern Italy to the North for work and a better life—just as our parents had done by going to Australia. So, they identified with that experience. In the Milanese setting, the universal nature of the story became evident. There were people in the audience who weren’t from the South but were familiar with migrant culture through having witnessed it. It would’ve been part of their every day lives, as is the case for many Australians.
ST Did they laugh at the same time? Ultimately, did they have a different appreciation? And finally, what impressions did you walk away with? Did you feel differently about the film after the Milan experience?
Now that we get to sit and talk in person, I have some questions about the screening of your film in Italy. Did you feel that the audience in Milan reacted differently to the comedy to audiences in Melbourne?
FDC Big Mamma’s Boy was subtitled into Italian which was great because usually films are dubbed for commercial release in Italy. The reaction of the audience at the Sguardi Altrove Film Festival in Milan was fantastic. They immediately embraced the characters as their own—the adoring Italian mamma, the nonno prone to sudden outbursts, the big mamma’s boy Rocco, his comic side-kick Anton, the voluptuous and well-meaning neighbour, Mrs. Cotoletta, and Rocco’s love interest, the ambitious and independent Katie who brings a clash of cultures to the story. The audience joined in the celebration of the culture that was represented in the film, which was more pure, less corrupted and more innocent than that of Italy today. They recognised the larger-than-life, lovable characters that inhabited the film, many of whom reminded them of their parents and grandparents.
I was accompanied at the screening by Carmelina De Guglielmo, who played mamma, one of the two female leads. Carmelina and I witnessed this reaction and were overwhelmed: for the film to be received so warmly in our parent’s homeland was very special. It was emotional for both of us, going to the heart of our experience of growing up as children of Italian immigrants.
Frank Lotito, who was one of the principal writers, was also a stand-up comic. He had come up with the idea, and he, producer Matteo Bruno and I really wanted to pay homage to the last vestiges of post-war Italian immigrant culture in Australia. Many of these immigrants are now in the final stages of life. We felt the best way to honour them was through pathos and humour. The Romantic-Comedy genre was the most logical vehicle. There’s no doubt we all had a passion for good, old-fashioned entertainment.
Stylistically, I wanted the film to have a retro feel. I’ve always loved Rock Hudson and Doris day movies with their handsome, bumbling lead man and sassy, singing lead lady. These films were some of the best Rom-Coms ever made in my opinion. Big Mamma’s Boy takes inspiration from that formula, except the singer in this case was a man rather than a woman. Frank has a beautiful singing voice and can really pump it out. It’s surprising that very few of the critics picked up on this cinematic reference, instead, interpreting it as outdated.
Despite what critics said, the film came from a position of love and pride for our cultural experience. The film speaks to who we are, of being first generation Australians. A large proportion of the audience in Milan were also children of immigrants; economic migrants that had relocated from Southern Italy to the North for work and a better life—just as our parents had done by going to Australia. So, they identified with that experience. In the Milanese setting, the universal nature of the story became evident. There were people in the audience who weren’t from the South but were familiar with migrant culture through having witnessed it. It would’ve been part of their every day lives, as is the case for many Australians.
ST Did they laugh at the same time? Ultimately, did they have a different appreciation? And finally, what impressions did you walk away with? Did you feel differently about the film after the Milan experience?
FDC They laughed within minutes of the film starting. There was Q&A afterwards and to see those faces in the audience beaming, telling us how it reminded them of their own families was exciting and rewarding. It was clear that the film made them nostalgic for happier times when the extended family in Italy was much stronger. It pointed to changing social values and the impact of globalisation on Italian culture. Funnily enough, it was the nostalgic aspects of the film which lead to it to be criticized in Australia, suggesting it could’ve been made 40 years ago. But that’s nonsense.
Firstly, Italian immigrant culture in Australia was like a time capsule of the customs they brought with them. They preserved it the best they could. Okay, it changed and evolved but arguably, traditional Italian culture was maintained better by immigrant cultures around the world than in Italy. Hence, our depiction of it in the film. Secondly, people of non-English speaking backgrounds had little or no access to telling their own stories on the screen forty years ago. And even now, we’re still struggling. It’s only in the area of indigenous, Muslim and Jewish storytelling that there’s been a real commitment from the funding agencies and the industry to address prejudice and imbalance. And the results have been spectacular. That’s what we’re missing by not having true diversity in front of and behind the camera.
Goalpost Pictures, Arenafilm, Blackfella Films and Matchbox are some of the most proactive production companies in terms of diversity. Matchbox has been involved with The Slap, The Family Law, Barracuda, Ali’s Wedding and Nowhere Boys. Collectively, these companies’ productions represent a culturally diverse slate of stories and cast.
Although Big Mamma’s Boy was rated 8/10 on ABC Radio in Perth and got strong reviews in non-mainstream media, it was ultimately marginalized for its “ethnic humour” and accused of promoting “ethnic stereotypes”. Funnily enough, these comments came largely from critics of English-Speaking backgrounds, whereas our target audience delighted in what they saw. For them, it was a kind of affirmation of their background and they reveled in it. Some of the screenings were almost riotous. Saying it’s stereotypical and leaving it at that is pretty simplistic. The fact is, comedies, and Rom-Coms in particular, use stereotypes to generate humour. We don’t often hear the same accusations leveled at comedies about Anglo-Saxon/Celtic characters. Playing on stereotypes is par for the course in this genre.
The question isn’t whether there are stereotypes in a comedy but the intention behind it; the filmmakers point of view, the perspective or gaze, and how its used. Is it coming from a position of superiority? Is it laughing “at” or laughing “with” the characters? They’re important distinctions. One’s paramount to vilification and the other, celebration. We loved and respected our characters and took care of them on screen—giving them some complexity. We showed their strengths and weaknesses, allowing audiences to empathise with them.
Another question is whether the characters transform—do they become better human beings? Rocco starts out as a chauvinistic and emotionally immature mamma’s boy who’s pretty dependent, whilst Katie is ambitious, independent and emotionally closed. They converge towards each other in the process. Indeed, all our characters change and I think that’s good storytelling. At every screening I attended, including the one in Milan, there were plenty of tears from the audience when Rocco finally tells his mother he’s leaving home. Without these characters’ transformation, the audience wouldn’t have been able to to feel anything for them, but they did, which says something. Our characters were much more than cardboard cutouts. But I think many well-meaning critics were blinded by their own political correctness, marginalising the film and tarnishing it with the same brush as offensive films.
Getting back to the Milan screening, I don’t recall one reaction or comment that was any different to an Australian audience. In fact, the notion of a “big mamma’s boy” is widely known in Italy—it’s actually a recognized social and cultural phenomenon. Someone in the audience quoted a court case where parents tried to evict their 40 year-old son from home. But the Italian court ruled in his favour! I think we hit a nerve in that respect.
Firstly, Italian immigrant culture in Australia was like a time capsule of the customs they brought with them. They preserved it the best they could. Okay, it changed and evolved but arguably, traditional Italian culture was maintained better by immigrant cultures around the world than in Italy. Hence, our depiction of it in the film. Secondly, people of non-English speaking backgrounds had little or no access to telling their own stories on the screen forty years ago. And even now, we’re still struggling. It’s only in the area of indigenous, Muslim and Jewish storytelling that there’s been a real commitment from the funding agencies and the industry to address prejudice and imbalance. And the results have been spectacular. That’s what we’re missing by not having true diversity in front of and behind the camera.
Goalpost Pictures, Arenafilm, Blackfella Films and Matchbox are some of the most proactive production companies in terms of diversity. Matchbox has been involved with The Slap, The Family Law, Barracuda, Ali’s Wedding and Nowhere Boys. Collectively, these companies’ productions represent a culturally diverse slate of stories and cast.
Although Big Mamma’s Boy was rated 8/10 on ABC Radio in Perth and got strong reviews in non-mainstream media, it was ultimately marginalized for its “ethnic humour” and accused of promoting “ethnic stereotypes”. Funnily enough, these comments came largely from critics of English-Speaking backgrounds, whereas our target audience delighted in what they saw. For them, it was a kind of affirmation of their background and they reveled in it. Some of the screenings were almost riotous. Saying it’s stereotypical and leaving it at that is pretty simplistic. The fact is, comedies, and Rom-Coms in particular, use stereotypes to generate humour. We don’t often hear the same accusations leveled at comedies about Anglo-Saxon/Celtic characters. Playing on stereotypes is par for the course in this genre.
The question isn’t whether there are stereotypes in a comedy but the intention behind it; the filmmakers point of view, the perspective or gaze, and how its used. Is it coming from a position of superiority? Is it laughing “at” or laughing “with” the characters? They’re important distinctions. One’s paramount to vilification and the other, celebration. We loved and respected our characters and took care of them on screen—giving them some complexity. We showed their strengths and weaknesses, allowing audiences to empathise with them.
Another question is whether the characters transform—do they become better human beings? Rocco starts out as a chauvinistic and emotionally immature mamma’s boy who’s pretty dependent, whilst Katie is ambitious, independent and emotionally closed. They converge towards each other in the process. Indeed, all our characters change and I think that’s good storytelling. At every screening I attended, including the one in Milan, there were plenty of tears from the audience when Rocco finally tells his mother he’s leaving home. Without these characters’ transformation, the audience wouldn’t have been able to to feel anything for them, but they did, which says something. Our characters were much more than cardboard cutouts. But I think many well-meaning critics were blinded by their own political correctness, marginalising the film and tarnishing it with the same brush as offensive films.
Getting back to the Milan screening, I don’t recall one reaction or comment that was any different to an Australian audience. In fact, the notion of a “big mamma’s boy” is widely known in Italy—it’s actually a recognized social and cultural phenomenon. Someone in the audience quoted a court case where parents tried to evict their 40 year-old son from home. But the Italian court ruled in his favour! I think we hit a nerve in that respect.
ST While I'm here with you in a Melbourne cafe, I also want to take the opportunity to ask what you think is most funny about the Italian Australian experience—which in the film is seen from the point of view a male, thirty-something year old.
FDC One of the biggest laughs is when Rocco’s mother does a surprise visit to his new apartment one morning with Maria, the woman she wants him to marry, not realizing he’s in bed with someone else. Katie comes into the kitchen wrapped in only a sheet to find them drying dishes. They scream at the sight of each other, waking Rocco. He rushes down naked to be greeted by more screams, and then his mate Anton, also nude, comes to see what all the commotion is about, only to find himself enamoured with Maria, though not before mamma has one of her many fainting spells. It always brings the house down. It’s slapstick in the best possible way, harping back to the heydays of Hollywood Rom-Coms.
There are lots of other funny moments. But what’s really interesting is how audiences pick up on all the nuances. The scene where Rocco’s mother, uncle and neighbour Mrs. Cotoletta and her husband are wandering around the veggie patch in what is a classic Italian-Australian backyard, showing off their chooks, plot of fennel plants and a huge satellite dish, that was installed at a discount for “cash”, is hilarious. It might seem like they’re talking about nothing but it actually speaks volumes about a time and place—its cultural specificity is priceless. The Milanese audience appreciated it, recognizing themselves. It’s as though they were watching it in anticipation—they understood the tone and the direction it was going, it was all so familiar to them.
As a comic, Frank had the benefit of trying out so many of the gags in the film with live audiences first. In other words, they’d been tried and tested. Although, translating them to the screen is another thing. The timing is different and that’s where the test audiences were invaluable—we could tweak the timing of the gags in the edit room for maximum impact. Frank related to Rocco’s background of course. Now, I can’t say for sure he’d been a mamma’s boy too but given the sharp observations in the film, I suspect he would’ve known quite a few!
There are lots of other funny moments. But what’s really interesting is how audiences pick up on all the nuances. The scene where Rocco’s mother, uncle and neighbour Mrs. Cotoletta and her husband are wandering around the veggie patch in what is a classic Italian-Australian backyard, showing off their chooks, plot of fennel plants and a huge satellite dish, that was installed at a discount for “cash”, is hilarious. It might seem like they’re talking about nothing but it actually speaks volumes about a time and place—its cultural specificity is priceless. The Milanese audience appreciated it, recognizing themselves. It’s as though they were watching it in anticipation—they understood the tone and the direction it was going, it was all so familiar to them.
As a comic, Frank had the benefit of trying out so many of the gags in the film with live audiences first. In other words, they’d been tried and tested. Although, translating them to the screen is another thing. The timing is different and that’s where the test audiences were invaluable—we could tweak the timing of the gags in the edit room for maximum impact. Frank related to Rocco’s background of course. Now, I can’t say for sure he’d been a mamma’s boy too but given the sharp observations in the film, I suspect he would’ve known quite a few!
ST Do you think that Australians of Italian background have fully explored their Italianness and indeed their Australianness, or better what makes them uniquely Australian, since no one in Australia, not even an Australian of Italian background, drinks coffee the way it's drunk in Italy.
FDC Ha, that’s funny. There’s a scene in Big Mamma’s Boy where Rocco’s mother pretends to be sick after he reveals he’s thinking of leaving home. He’s left to fend for himself, doing the domestics. He decides to prove his independence by making a coffee for his nonno, but it all goes horribly wrong and the old mans spits it out, swearing at him. Rocco devotes a number of scenes in the film practicing to cook, iron and make coffee with varying degrees of success until he eventually conquers them all. For example, we see him getting the nod of approval for his short black from Mrs. Cotoletta’s husband. The accomplishment is treated like a win at the soccer World Cup, accompanied by Bill Conti’s anthemic Rocky theme.
Coffees in Australia may have improved in general but we continue to raise our hats in tribute to the Italo-Australian culture that shaped us, through our films, our literature and music. Come to think of it, my music documentary The Joys of the Women (Le Gioie delle Donne), which also screened at Sguardi Altrove Film Festival, has similar scenes—where conflicting values are fought out across kitchen tables. It’s symbolic of how we’re still trying to fit in. It’s little wonder this diaspora has left us with a whole lot of baggage—we’re kind of gypsies.
Do you realize we’ve now met up in Genoa, Cinque Terre, Rome, Sicily, Melbourne and Milan—albeit the latter was via Skype at the Sguardi Altrove Film Festival. It’s amazing where our work and cultural backgrounds have taken us. Where next? I can’t wait to see.
Coffees in Australia may have improved in general but we continue to raise our hats in tribute to the Italo-Australian culture that shaped us, through our films, our literature and music. Come to think of it, my music documentary The Joys of the Women (Le Gioie delle Donne), which also screened at Sguardi Altrove Film Festival, has similar scenes—where conflicting values are fought out across kitchen tables. It’s symbolic of how we’re still trying to fit in. It’s little wonder this diaspora has left us with a whole lot of baggage—we’re kind of gypsies.
Do you realize we’ve now met up in Genoa, Cinque Terre, Rome, Sicily, Melbourne and Milan—albeit the latter was via Skype at the Sguardi Altrove Film Festival. It’s amazing where our work and cultural backgrounds have taken us. Where next? I can’t wait to see.
Thank you!
Franco produced Under the Skin, winner of an AFI/AACTA Award for Best Mini-Series/Telefeature and an ATOM Award for Best TV Drama Series – episode Best Wishes screened at the Venice International Film Festival. He was SBS Executive on the indigenous package of shorts, From Sand to Celluloid – episode No Way to Forget screened in Un Certain Regard at Cannes and on Rolf de Heer’s feature The Quiet Room which screened in Official Competition at the festival, the same year. He directed the miniseries Three Forever for SBS and RAI Uno starring Bud Spencer attracting 7 million viewers over two nights when it screened in Italy. He directed the feature comedy Big Mamma’s Boy starring Frank Lotito, Holly Valance and Carmelina De Guglielmo which was released nationally by Madman Entertainment, screened at CinefestOz as well as festivals in Italy and the US and sold to Fox Movies. Franco's film The Joys of the Women was also released theatrically, broadcast on ABC-TV and nominated Best Documentary in the film Critics Circle of Australia Awards. His films Pipe Dreams and Hoover’s Gold were huge ratings successes on ABC and SBS respectively, and The Fabulous Flag Sisters doubled ratings for Fox Italy’s Cult Channel and won Best Documentary at RomeFictionFest and Best Director at the WA Screen Awards. His feature length project Death of the Megabeasts won Best HD Documentary at WorldFest in Houston and was nominated Best Visual Effects in the AFI/AACTA Awards. He’s written and directed numerous episodes of Who Do You Think You Are?, including episodes with Ita Buttrose and Dennis Cometti breaking ratings records for SBS. He’s held senior industry positions including Commissioning Editor at SBS, Drama Development Executive at ScreenWest, Executive Producer at Film Australia, Director WA Screen Academy at Edith Cowan University and Development and Investment Manager at Film Victoria.
Silvana created and produced Sguardi australiani (2005-2006). She is the curator of the Sguardi australiani Archive, Prato, Italy. Critic, writer and curator has initiated cultural projects with the city, cultural diversity and contemporaneity as focus.Silvana divides her time between Australia and Italy.